Straight Answers from
Senior Rabbinic Administrator at AKO
The Lonely Mashgiach
Rabbi MD Gutnick AKO
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From: Rabbi Meir G. Rabi, its Kosher!, Sent: Monday, July 01, 2013 7:06 AM
Subject: Standards in Australia Rabbi F, I understand the sensitivities surrounding bringing the matters that I do, to your attention, and believe me I seek to avoid and minimise as much as possible any discomfort or other unpleasantness, and I will gladly follow any guidance you provide in this regard; but I wish to urge you to do what you can to ensure that the Kosher certifiers in both Melb and Syd Australia, do not rely upon NichNess VeYotzeh for the establishments they certify, that do not have Shomrey Shabbos proprietors, nor ShShabbos workers, and that are providing unsealed meat, fish, cheese and Chalav Yisrael, all being products that have indistinguishable and much cheaper non-Kosher forms. I understand that both Melb and Syd rabbis Gutnick are members of the AKO, and perhaps this provides you an additional strength to offer them guidance in this regard. Best, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - On 02/07/2013 12:16 PM, Rabbi F wrote: Rabbi Rabi: Do you have specific examples that I can look into? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Rabbi Meir G. Rabi, its Kosher! Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2013 10:20 PM Subject: RE: Standards in Australia Thank you Rabbi F. Melbourne: below list of establishments whose owner is not Shomer Shabbos, has no Hashgacha Temidis. the owner has access at his pleasure, and as best I understand there is no device or system that permits the Kosher certifier to monitor that only Kosher ingredients are brought into the establishment, nor determine how much product is sold.
Sydney: based on information that is first hand but many months old, and more recent but second hand information
On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 3:28 AM, Rabbi F wrote: Thank you I will follow up. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - following a number of reminders - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 3:52 AM, Rabbi F wrote: I went through each issue and place with the hashgachos in question and B”H they are all in order to industry standards. I don’t have the emails available to me (we switched email servers and they were put somewhere in a cloud) but you can be assured that it was looked into and they are aware of the need to be on par with National standards. I don’t think there is a need to pursue this any further unless there is some new serious violations since I last looked into. Gemar Chasima Tova. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rabbi Meir G. Rabi, its Kosher! <[email protected]>, Sep 9 Rabbi F, Thank you for your prompt response. I am sure that your constituents appreciate knowing some of the relevant Halachic detail as well as the nature of your industry standards. My constituents would certainly be delighted to learn more about the relevant Halacha and would be honoured to know more about your industry standards. I beg you to disclose both of these for our edification and probably more importantly, in order to preserve, enhance and promote the integrity of Kashrus. I do not suggest that I have access to the emails you exchanged with the rabbis or their agencies, but it seems to me that the standards, both industry and Halachic, that they and you subscribe to, ought to be, but are not, clearly published and readily available on your website. Gemar Chasima Tova Best, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rabbi Meir G. Rabi, its Kosher! <[email protected]>, 6:57 PM Rabbi F, Sorry for troubling you again but I have been pondering this for some time now: you are probably aware that I head a Kashrus authority here in Australia and that we have had singular success in expanding the range and array of certified Kosher foods. I should like to know more about the AKO's industry standards so that I too could apply them. It would make my task much less demanding if we could explain that the eateries under our certification, owned and operated by non Shomrey Shabbos, do not, as per AKO industry standards, I repeat do not require a full time Mashgiach. Besides, I have been troubled by the position taken by the OU who actually pretty much insist upon a full time Mashgiach even where the owner/operator is a Frum Yid. And lastly, I should also like to seek registering as a member AKO, what are the requirements, what are there application procedures, and is there a cost for membership? Gemar Chasima Tova Best, Rabbi Meir G. Rabi - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Rabbi Meir G. Rabi, its Kosher!, Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 4:39 AM Rabbi F, My constituents are unhappy with the responses I have communicated in your name, and to be perfectly honest, they don't believe that I am truly and fairly presenting you. I should like therefore to have your permission to disclose the original chain of emails so that they can see for themselves and draw their own conclusions. I should also like to show these emails to some Rabbanim for their evaluation. Although I hardly feel that this requires permission since our discussions do not touch upon any secrets or privileged information, and my seeking advice from Talmiday Chachamim is LeHagDil Torah. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Send them to me first to review Chag Samaech. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rabbi Meir G. Rabi, its Kosher! <[email protected]>, Sep 11 Sholom to you Rabbi F, I presume you mean that you should like to see what I would like to disclose of our email discussion; please find below a suggestion. But before that, may I ask: the Industry and National standards you speak of, are they in accordance with the OU's guidelines? or the OK's guidelines or the London Beth Din's guidelines? - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rabbi F Sep 18 to Rabbi As you correctly pointed out I do not have the time now to focus on this at this time. In truth, there is only a limit I can do from across the globe but I hope to make a trip out there sometime in the near future and can perhaps focus on it then. Chag Samaech. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rabbi Meir G. Rabi, its Kosher! <[email protected]>, 8:36 PM Rabbi F, Firstly may I wish you a Gutt Moed. Thank you for taking time in your busy schedule to read and respond to my emails. I have discussed this issue and your emails with a number of Chachamim and we all agree that what emerges is that the facts are undisputed and you accept that: # Rabbis Gutnick of Melbourne and Sydney provide kosher certification for eateries where the owners and operators are not Shomrey Shabbos. # These eateries do not have full time supervision. # They are not locked and under the control of a Mashgiach during non business hours. # They prepare and sell meat and fish and cheese, products that are likely candidates for substitution with far cheaper and indistinguishable non kosher equivalents. # You are confident that these eateries conform to Halachic standards and the AKO "industry" standards; the AKO being the Kashrus organisation of which you are President and to which the Rabbis Gutnick are members. # You are pleased to share with me the recent email discussions you've had with the Rabbis Gutnick following and due to my query, but they are lost. You have also conveyed that you are not in principle opposed to me sharing the email discussion we have had regarding this matter and I did send you a slightly condensed version of this for your perusal and comment. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Rabbi Meir G. Rabi, its Kosher! <[email protected]> 8:49 PM to Rabbi F As a post script may I observe that your comment, "there is only a limit I can do from across the globe" suggests that you are not pleased with these arrangements by the Rabbis Gutnick but are unable to implement the modifications you wish from your distant location. |
